Meeting Minutes for June 15, 2005

Web Page: www.wwcic.org

Information Line Phone Number: 425-820-6271

Joint WWCIC and WCTC Meeting.

Keith Bandy opened the meeting at 10:04 AM, commenting on holding future odd numbered years in Canada.

Introductions followed progressing around the room. A sign in sheet was then handed out.

Keith went over the agenda for the meeting.

First to speak was Gary --------------- of Industry Canada. He gave an update on the framework of Management of Spectrum involving two different departments. There are revisions with new proposals and impacts of Spectrum Management. A paper will be available with September being the deadline for comments. Review comments to be used for a draft document.

There is a new Frequency Table update, adoptions of IP, and domestic issues such as 216 – 222 MHz, 1710 – 2200 MHz, and 3660 – 3700 MHz with papers following.

They are reviewing Telecommunications Policies and New Technologies. They will develop recommendations to go forward on. Responses to be reviewed August 15^th. Antenna structures are also being reviewed under late summer comments.

The Pacific region licensing paper was recently done, it ID’s new processes with the goal to speed them up. All Spectrum management papers are available under their portal to their IT info Department. Last year they have had client consultations, workshops and events newsletter for ongoing spectrum management. You can ask Ind. Canada for information on frequency allocations with Spectrum Direct, or by contacting their offices.

800 Rebanding and public consultations are posted.  Last week there was a note of intent to sign off on 700 MHz. After sign off it will go to Agency affairs and Dept. of Environment.

The 216 to 220 and 220 to 222 MHz, and 1.4 GHz bands going to narrow band, but no one makes equipment working at 12.5 to 6.25 KHz at this time. 138 to 174 MHz is being looked at.

It used to take 6, 9 maybe 12 months for coordination with Canada it is now 2 to 4 weeks as items go back and forth between FCC and Industry Canada. NTIA has a 45-day reply time – usually 30 to 45 days. Ind. Canada is regrouping on a Regional basis in order to supply better service. There will be a difference in how Regions do things.

The 2010 Olympics issue was opened for discussion. It was noted that WCTC has a seat in Radio Advisory of Canada and Industry Canada for its own voice on matters. WCTC values its level of involvement with Industry Canada as consultants of the industry.

Gary gave Dennis Hausman the Industry Canada web site information on their SIEC and Dennis gave them the Washington State SIEC web address.

Kris McGowan represented the FCC at the meeting and gave a short presentation of what is happening at the FCC and the local FCC in Washington State. Kris is the Assistant Director in the FCC Kirkland, WA office. She told of Mr. Powell’s leaving the FCC and Kevin Martin becoming the FCC Commissioner. The FCC is taking time to redefine itself under its new leadership. The FCC web site has yet to address this as well as Policy and Direction. She noted the retirement of Dennis Anderson and there has been no designated replacement as yet. The main tasks of the FCC Kirkland office are solving interference complaints. Prior to any work there has to be approval by the FCC Regional office. There was mention of a kinder gentler FCC allowing more time to correct infractions. With the FCC Antenna registrations they can contact and resolve things quicker. Not all Tower registration signs are up. There is an effort ongoing to clean up the Antenna database on those not actually there or not constructed and they will be deleting unconstructed Antenna towers. Rebanding, the 216-220 MHz auctions, the 1432-1435, 1710-1755, 2385-2390 MHZ Commercial Spectrum enhancement act using Federal assigned frequencies were mentioned. New Wireless service will be a result. There are 40 pages of proposed rule making. Comments are due in 30 days in the Federal Registry of the FCC.

The Construction Notice was discussed with the reference to go to the FCC web site to use their new pages on Construction required timelines. The ULS works better on the construction database now. Any problem? It’s recommended that you call the FCC help desk. The FAA filing on the web works well.

911 concerns were discussed and the requirements needed to have VOIP Phone service locate callers. It is recommended that each user call their Voip Phone service provider and ask about how they locate callers.

A public TV station in Seattle is now a Digital TV station.

Steve Leonard of Nextel commented from Nextel’s point of view about the early movement from the General Channels to the Nextel Middle band frequencies. The non US Regions are not finalized and a bonafied mapping at this time. Nextel will early discuss the frequencies to be moved under Wave # 4 and everything will be under a contract.

Frequency moves may not be reimbursable if not under contract. The frequencies must be approved by treaty first. 

Spencer Banner said, that US Primary Channels could be used on a non-interfering basis.

Perhaps this could be used to jump start the “Green Space?” He felt we could go early outside Region 5. He called Secondary frequencies “ White Space’.

Steve said George Tyler of Nextel would be handling Rebanding in the Western USA.

He said it is not clear how Secondary Frequencies are to be used. He reiterated that using any secondary now would not be reimbursable.

City of Seattle BDA deployments were discussed as an element of Rebanding. These might effect 900 MHz deployments in downtown Seattle. There was a major discussion about a lack of a defined Band Map plan as yet. Spencer commented on Public Safety’s concern on the NPSPAC band plan leaving 1.5 to 3.0 MHz use allocated in the Puget Sound area needing a buffer for more Interferences with control channels being shifted downward. Steve said Nextel frequencies are useable for Public Safety regardless of banding. There are 60 other primary channels. Government standards may not apply, but could interface in PS if used. Other Spectrum resources might be used.

Spencer said with no action in Region 5 in Wave #4, the PS response would be very targeted and conservative involvement with Rebanding. He mentioned King County had Simulcast voice with about ½ spectrum not covered by Rulemaking in 800 MHz Rebanding as applied to US Primary assignments and that the Seattle Area does not have a great degree of flexibility.

There has been only one Canadian Iden Interference complaint. The majority of Canadian PS is on ECOMM. ECOMM has sufficient signal levels. PS works together with them in low signal areas. The Iden interference is in the Toronto / Windsor area and there is no impact to Roaming. Nextel has agreements with Telus on Secondary frequencies at border OK’d by Industry Canada and the FCC to coordinate a mutual pool of border channels on a non-interference basis.

Dennis Hausman said we need a plan that makes good sense for the State and is OK for Nextel. A line below Olympia is needed and has been discussed with George Tyler and the TA. Steve Leonard commented about staying out of the way of an active frequency and not occupying spectrum someone is on already. He said George is doing the Rebanding. Dennis stated the TA rules could be found in the new TA recent publications.

Keith Bandy asked about the Nextel / Sprint merger and if the 16 Million Iden subscribers would be moving off Iden, or is this all mute? Steve Leonard replied that Donahue has a road map for Iden as they continue to grow and operate tom 2008. They intend to expand and keep it a vibrant system. On Iden vs: Sprint the issue is broadband is a broader pipe and in that way is better than Iden? There is an expense in terms of self interference, and traffic loading variables Sprint is a 1.9 GHz spectrum having consumer voice and high speed data linked P to P for data backhaul. Iden still the best push to talk solution along with messaging. Iden cell hardening is being done so all sites will be functional in disaster recovery if there is loss of AC power. Iden is a primer service for customers wanting reliability. After 2008 there is a huge market out there like Boeing not replacing their Safety of life radio systems. Business and public Safety sectors need to make it work better for them. Iden is not promoted as a Public Safety Primary system, but as a secondary system. The city of Ashford in Canada uses Iden as a secondary backup system. Telus is similar in Canada.

The 2010 Olympics were next discussed. The planning is just beginning for this major world event. Industry Canada stated there was a Seminar next week with ECOMM , the RCMP and Bellingham. It will be a planning meeting involving primary and secondary airports. Mike Creggs is the Industry Canada planner for a state emergency response plan for 2010. He wants Salt Lake City past Olympics information and their experiences. Wayne Troy will form committee and get people together. Kris of the FCC was at the Salt Lake City Olympics for 30 Days. and will be involved in coordinating FCC Agents on US side of the border if needed. Industry Canada indicated they would be talking to the FCC about fieldwork. George Bisso said he had worked in Salt Lake City Olympics. He indicated enforcement is a Canadian issue, but that intercepting and licensing everyone coming into Canada such as small newsgathering agencies use small portables on emergency channels, or might leak into the USA with these units. He suggested red tagging everything. Users will be from all over the world. With everything wireless now a plan is needed before this happens. He stated he is willing to share his Salt Lake City experiences. Kris said there had been tight security in Salt Lake City. Gary stated it is an issue of “How to control?” He also said Pre-Olympic events need control as well. Kris discussed the WTO Seattle experiences and it indicated a better plan has to be shared by everyone. Steve Leonard commented from a commercial carriers perspective. There had been a Salt Lake City agreement between the organizing committee, which allowed commercial access in buildings with an agreement in exchange from planning and zoning for a temporary site venue in a coordinated way with signal strength limitations. There was then protection within the area in Salt Lake City. They could get into there to achieve interference mitigations. The organizing officials, thus securing additional frequencies, made discussions. Gorge Bisso commented on how the SBE and NFL teams with the broadcasting and 2 way radio systems use coding to avoid interfering with each other. There is a frequency Coordinator at each game. There are coded stickers on each radio unit to ID which frequency it is on. George stated RF will not stop at the border, and frequency list must be available for both sides of the border.

The discussion returned to Rebanding and the possible Rule making beyond 2008, and that it will then extend until it is finished. Dennis stated the SIEC would provide a list of Rebanding frequencies to Industry Canada.

Wiztronics mentioned they had one 220 MHz system on Lookout MT. with receive 12.5 kHz bandwidth. Keith said the RPC is looking at narrow banding in Canada. George Bisso asked how big the 220 MHz thing was? The reply was it is from 216 to 220 MHz and 220 MHz to 222 MHz – proposed, and an agreement and coordination will be required.

After lunch the Rebanding was again the subject. There are upcoming meetings with the TA. Wiz remarked that failure was not an option for the PS entities. He said there are two 700 MHz systems being planned in the Seattle area, Metro Transit and King County. Including East Transit and Pierce County. There are discussions with the RPC on Metro and the need to finish the planning process. WA State is also considering options in the 700 MHZ band. There is a RPC Region 43 web site to refer to for information. There are monthly meetings as well as phone participation. 4.9 GHZ also a State plan RPC under FCC rules. Interference is up to the user to solve. Region 43 hopes to have a database of who’s on 4.9 GHz. The 700 plans will be submitted to the FCC in July.

On 800 MHz there is extensive Interoperations between Puget Sound 800 MHz systems with Mutual Aid agreements. Boeing has extensive 800 MHz systems. The TA will pay for a Program Manager for all these combined PS Puget Sound systems in Snohomish, King and Pierce County’s. The TA will oversee Rebanding to keep Interoperability intact.

Keith asked what the main application of 4.9 GHz would be? The consensus was that 4,9 GHz would be used for Data, Video, and hot spots. There will be vehicle data dumpsites such as at a refueling depot. Finger Prints, mug shots, patrol car video, and things like video for EOC’s to each other. Linda from Boeing stated the TA was open to work the PS Rebanding Issues along with the commercial 800 MHz systems.

Keith asked about P-25 being the standard? He stated any wide area system has to be P-25 such as the RCMP.

Dennis said P-25 is encouraged by grant dollars being tied to being for P-25. Cost isn’t an excuse for not using P-25. It would take a very persuasive business case to get an exemption to P-25. He stated on June 15^th the Executive Policy Board endorsed P-25 as a Standard 7 all radio purchasing must be P-25. The pricing pattern has decreased by 40% for P-25 equipment in last 4 years.

Keith brought up Consoles and ISSI standards not being ratified as yet. This won’t get going until there is a standard. The standards will be submitted to the manufacturers when finalized. Spenser said that standards and their funding depend on Manufacturers getting this completed as well. Console interface should be this year?

Keith talked about the Yukon System by the Territorial government on VHF P-25 Systems. It is not started as of yet.

Dennis reported that the WSP has a $30 M contract from FBI for Microwave, and a P-25 Project up and down I-5 and I-90 as well as the gorge.

Keith said there was a web site called “ScanBC” listing PS radio information.

Wiz talked about NWRadio.com hacking systems getting insider information. He said there were liberal public access laws in Washington State. They have released radio system information under public disclosure laws. New scanners get information easily. There are APCO P-25 scanners today, and there has been PS audio streamed over the Internet as well. Encryption is the only way around it. Keith said it is a matter of education not to pass PS sensitive information over the radio systems. Wiz states News organizations have bought their own receive only radios to monitor PS in Seattle. Keith asked what counter measure can be taken to track and ID radios. Marking phone number and engraving a notice there is a $100.00 reward for the return of the radio helps.

The Mutual Aid Washington State channels and the Red Net / OSCCR multi-Agency systems were mentioned. LERN /INLEC/ and 5 VHF TAC channels, 5 uhf NARROWBAND Tac channels, 800 ICALL and ITAC and 5 ops channels were mentioned. There are Federal VHF, UHF Interop that can be used in co-op with Federal Agency's.

Spencer stated that consulting Narrow band with Canada and USA has not been resolved.

Jay said it would be good to have across border call frequency’s to use across the border.

Keith asked about deployable resources with reference to recent earthquake's on west coast of Vancouver Island. They need to have Siren practice, and it need to be addressed much more.

It was discussed that ICALL and ITAC were not well used at all. A better definition is needed to everyone. Wiz stated the Simulcast shot down their ICALL and ITAC repeater plans. They should start over again to do this.  ITAC 3 is in use at most prisons. Assistance to Prisons uses ITAC 3.  The repeaters to do this are 9 to 12 months away.

Jay discussed Interop, TRIS, Tri County Interoperability System. Dispatch centers patch any group to the SERS and WSP entities. It is System-to-System connectivity. IWIN tied into the system. City PD talks to FBI within footprint of coverage’s of the radio systems.

US Marshals use the intertie. VOX isn’t acceptable. They use E and M signaling for no delays. Dispatcher’s patch TRIS to all. There is an intercom tie across Systems to Dispatch centers. Co-ordinated Dispatcher to Dispatcher “BIM” 4 wire audio on Consoles and Patches to BIM. WSP is not a Motorola System and they work OK. If 4 wire it can talk and can cross talk to systems.

Dennis Hausman gave the web address for the SIEC in Washington State as “ www.SIEC.wa.gov”.

Page 30 is on the OSCCDR Plan.

The meeting for 2005 at Hazelmere Golf Course ended at 2:15 PM.

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